Gavin Trilogy — Probing the Asshole
Interview with a self-proclaimed asshole.
From getting beaten up by Nazis to getting labelled one. From calling Jesus gay on Bill Maher to becoming a Christian. The ‘Godfather of Hipsters’ hails from Canada, co-founded Vice Media and admits to being sexist, xenophobic and nationalist*. To put things nicely: Gavin is a challenging person to understand.
Disclosure
Gavin and I share mutual friends. He was interviewed for the 2012 doc Life After Death From Above which I’m listed as the cinematographer but we never met. Only recently I learned there was substantial pressure on the filmmakers to have him removed from the doc. The filmmakers didn’t capitulate.
Years later I began writing critically about Vice Media. I thought Gavin might be a good resource at some point — I was wrong. Gavin signed some kind of non-disparagement contract along with a quagmire of non-compete contracts as part of his deal leaving Vice Media.
Essentially, there are many questions I want to ask but can’t. Instead I try to understand what makes him tick.
An Interview Gone Awry
This interview began mid-July as our communications began to sour. Text has been formatted to put responses inline. Hyperlinks have been added to some text.
notvice: I think people who self-identify as comedians are allowed to push boundaries. Going through your CV it’s easy to weave positive and negative narratives from your life…
Leaving Vice
nv: You left over ten years ago, name erased from the masthead. Now they’ve described as the “disgraced VICE co-founder”. When were you ever graced?
Gavin McInnes: “Disgraced” is mean but Vice was always about putting a cool spin on things. You don’t want to look like a sell-out. I might have done the same.
Ink by Scott Campbell
nv: After leaving Vice you inked two passages that, as I understand it, speak to the proximity of fact and fiction. Mandeville caused outrage with a work of satire (first published under a pseudonym) — and his ideas are said to have influenced the economist Adam Smith. The other arm has a Scottish battle hymn via How the Scots Invented the Modern World. How did you explain it to the artist? (Scott Campbell I assume).
GM: The Mandeville poem on my arm is about how things we assume are bad are actually good for all of us.
“Luxury
Employ’d a Million of the Poor,
And odious Pride a Million more;
Envy it self, and Vanity,
Were Ministers of Industry;
Their darling Folly, Fickleness,
In Diet, Furniture and Dress,
That strange ridic’lous Vice, was made
The very Wheel that turn’d the Trade.” — Bernard Mandeville
The other side is a Scottish anthem about the battle of Sherrif Muir. There was no battle that day. The Scots AND the English pushed out but the Scottish history books are defensive and try to say it happened.
“There’s some say that we wan and some say that they wan
And some say that nane wan at a’ man
But one thing is sure that at Sheriff Muir
A battle was fought on that day man” — Sherrif Muir
I didn’t tell Scott shit. He doesn’t care.
If you’re going for some sort of, “It’s all a con” angle, you’re wrong. I think watching my videos or interviews or articles makes it pretty clear I’m being honest and I’d also argue I’ve been relatively consistent for the past 30 years. Politics is people who want to be left alone and people who won’t leave them the fuck alone. I’ve always been in the first camp.
nv: I’m not trying to build an its all a con narrative [like Hollywood Reporter in 2015 I’m not Andy Kaufman; This isn’t a joke] It’s like I wrote above, given the quantity and span of your work one can apply almost any narrative they want. The antifa narrative on you is surprisingly well researched and so it’s not surprising that someone reading it would hate you. But I don’t think it’s as insightful as the paragraph Greg wrote about you in his book.
“…in this battle [against hipster intolerance] I found cohort in the battle — Gavin McInnes, cofounder of Vice magazine a subversive piece of filth that erupted in the nineties […] He’s covered in tattoos but raises his kids like a normal dad […] Gavin is a hipster but is also the hardest working capitalist I know (I just wish he wouldn’t strip so often in public)” Greg Gutfeld in The Joy of Hate
Press vs PR
nv: There are about 85,000 news articles with your name in them [NOTE: Went down to 14,000]. People outside the ‘funny community’ tend to write critically about you. Often these articles will have some factual errors. How often do you have to correct the record?
GM: 80% of articles about me are bullshit, especially recently.
If I’m in a bad mood, I’ll spend a few thousand bucks correcting the record. I just spent $2,500 getting Salon to remove their allegation I had drifted into “neo-Nazi” territory. I didn’t do the same when Daily Beast bandied around “white supremacist” (quite carefully because they know I sue).
It’s ultimately pointless. They change a sentence here and there to appease you but rarely publish a retraction.
The MSM and alternative media aren’t really in it for the truth. They just work at a blog factory. The few times I’ve been able to confront them in person, they look at me like I’m questioning some random act they did in kindergarten (even if it was a month ago). They’re shocked I give a shit. One Mic writer said, “Oh, that was one of five things I pounded out that day.”
NOTE: The Salon article has a correction notice but their tweet still says “Vice founder Gavin McInnes struggles to walk that fine line between edgy, hip right-winger and full-on neo-Nazi”
Mic’s, Jon Levine did not respond when I asked to confirm Gavin’s story.
FOX News Appearances
nv: You have about 100 appearances on Fox (I watched this playlist). Are you booked in-character? Did you bring multiple costumes each visit?
GM: I’d show up in character depending on the subject matter. Weird question.
The “McCuck” Thing
nv: Andrew Anglin of The Daily Stormer was an on and off fan for almost two years — until you suggested he was FBI. When did he first appear on your radar?
GM: Can’t remember. Don’t care. I think he’s a gov’t agent. Much of the Nazi right are gov’t agents or LARPers or keyboard warriors. They don’t really exist. If they really cared about racial purity or Western civ they’d make babies. They’re just playing a game and they’re a very toxic bunch to go near.
On Prejudice
nv: I’ve bounced between thinking you’re racist / anti-racist / dog-whistling / not racist a dozen times. What I’ve noticed is that you will play the race card if you think it will get a laugh, but you played that card a lot. Right now I’d say you’re ‘extremely prejudiced’ mostly because you give more attention to eugenics (Bell Curve) than the criticism of it (read: Criticism of Bell Curve) and in your writing you cite pseudo-scientific studies as fact (92 Percent). Would you at least agree you’re highly prejudiced?
GM: I don’t think about race and IQ much at all (“more attention”?)
You bring it up so yes, the Bell Curve is a brilliant book you can’t really criticize without reading. They are very cautious about these patterns affecting the individual but there are undeniable patterns. I live in NYC and have been surrounded by exceptions my entire adult life. Weirdos are my people. That doesn’t mean Murray and Herrnstein were wrong.
Basically, when you meet a person you have to start from scratch and assume none of the stereotypes or patterns apply to him. I think that’s what most of us do anyway so it’s a non-issue.
NOTE: PT3 of this trilogy I read the book and go into Gavin’s long history of defending eugenics.
Corrections
nv: Typical news organizations will have phantom edits on about a quarter of their articles (usually minor changes) and stated corrections to five percent or less. You’ve never issued a correction in TakiMag (from what I can tell) will you ever issue a correction?
GM: I will happily include corrections on any of my articles TODAY.
NOTE: Our full exchange is three pages. In summary, I pointed out two incorrect numbers: first was about interracial marriage and the second was about immigration. He partially conceded one point but wanted me to find an alternative source. He would not concede the second point.
No corrections were made.
Update Sept 29: Gavin’s article on Takimag issued a correction saying the study is “not reliable and has been removed.” The study was replaced with a link to a shoddy polemic with no citations from Conservative News Source, a site owner who has called Obama a “skinny ghetto crackhead”. That’s So Gavin!
The following day Gavin was added to an Anti-Defamation League’s From Alt Right to Alt Lite: Naming the Hate. (His last name was spelled incorrectly 2/9 times.)
Bogeyman
nv: Your apology published in Gawker is fascinating. “When the NYT piece came out I realized the monster I created grew up and ran away from home. I guess it’s time to switch to a new gag.” Where do you stand on that now?
GM: That letter was something I very much regret. I was young and naive and wanting to appease my coworkers / employees. I was trying to diffuse my first major controversy so I lied. Out of all the shitstorms I’ve been in over the past quarter century, that’s the one thing I wish I could take back.
Medication
nv: You said you take Adderall (aka ‘daderall’). ADHD?
GM: I took Adderall back in Rooster days. Made a lot of money. Unfortunately, there are side effects and I quit after two years. If someone gives me a pill these days, the next 48 hours are a write off. It’s a helluva drug.
nv: Was it your prescription? If yes, was it based on a real or feigned ADHD symptoms?
GM: I did Adderall for 2 years. Corrupt doctor.
Membership and Degrees
nv: Knights of Columbus [of which you’re a member] and Proudboys are similar in structure but one is known for charity work and the other for violent acts. Public vices and private virtues?
GM: We need to do more charity work. We have done a fair amount. Our Midwest chapter worked hard to help the less fortunate (can dig that up if you want). I consider SaveTheFive.com a form or charity work. Flying to Halifax next week to deliver the petition.
NOTE: Someone from Proud Boys Texas contacted me and shared a successful $1000 fundraiser for the North Texas Central Food Bank.
Gavin did not fly to Halifax.
Destruction 创造 [Creates]
nv: “The days of the West are numbered and I will be the impetus that destroys it. I am turning America inside out from the outside in.” Who is in control?
GM: I think I was trying to say that I was into all this stuff decades before “you.” Kids today barely understand the concept of “creative destruction” but I’ve had it tattooed on my back since 1995. The concept has degraded into all destruction and no creation but revolution was something I was completely devoted to since the early 80s.
To be clear: I am not trying to destroy the west and I am not turning America inside out. This was a colorful interview in a punk magazine meant to provoke thought through obfuscation. I am trying to destroy Western ethnomasochism and self-hatred. I am trying to destroy shame. I want to shut down the government. It’s just today, the traditionalists seem more devoted to anarchy than the punks.
nv: The quote was published in PORK [est. 2010] but originates several years earlier in 2004 from Nick Currie’s blog (aka Momus) and the same quote appears again in 2005 on Trace Crutchfield’s blog from an account under your name.
GM:[No response]
Chicken?
nv: Herzog ate his shoe, will you at least eat the $100 bill you promised?
GM: You are correct. I have to eat $100.
Here’s what I think you’re looking for…
- RACIST: Absolutely not. There are patterns and they become relevant when discussing millions of people but on an individual basis: irrelevant.
RACISM AS A TOPIC IS IRRELEVANT BUT THE LEFT DEVOTES 90% OF THEIR HEADSPACE TO IT. BLACKS DON’T TALK ABOUT RACE. WORKING CLASS WHITES LAUGH IT OFF. IT IS THE SUBJECT MATTER OF RICH, WHITE, ACADEMICS WHO DON’T KNOW ANY NON-WHITES AND IT’S REALLY, REALLY BORING.
- HOMOPHOBIC: Nope. I do think gay marriage has been used to bully Christians but you’re born gay and that means God / nature made it so.
- SEXIST: Sorta. If thinking most women would be happier at home and women are not men is sexist, then yeah. I think I put them on a pedestal because I think giving birth is magic. They are “sentient” as Coulter says.
- ISLAMOPHOBIC: If “phobia” is an irrational fear, then no. I’m not phobic. I am scared of their numbers getting more than 10% because terrorism follows soon after. They don’t assimilate.
- XENOPHOBIC: Yes. I think all non-Western cultures are inferior.
- NATIONALIST: Yep.
NOTE: Gavin did not send me a video of him eating a $100 bill.
Gavin doesn’t like me.
After sending Gavin a draft link to PT1 he phoned me angry because of a miscommunication. After I told him about the premise of PT3 that asks “Is Gavin a White Supremacist?” he went ballistic. After an hour of arguing he said he would phone a lawyer to see if he could sue me.
The following day on The Gavin McInnes Show he talked about how he was drinking night before and also mentioned how suing people is expensive.
Gavin Trilogy — The DNA of Vice
- PREVIOUS — PART I: Getting Under His Skin. A timeline of Gavin McInnes’s tattoos.
- PART II: Probing the Asshole. Interview with a self-proclaimed asshole.
- NEXT — PART III: White Noise. “RACIST: Absolutely not.” Really???
